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August 14, 2008

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Living in the world of democracy promoted worldwide both peacefully and with the bayonets of American GIs, you, Gina, are certainly entitled to hate Russia, to think that you have to start arms race anew, "building more weapons to defend ourselves against Russia", to sincerely think you understand the historicval reasons for what is happening in the ex-Soviet Union territories being zones of Russian interest, and rejecting Russia of the right to have such zones (evidently, in the modern monopolar world this is only the USA that are entitled to have their own interests, aren't they?).

But hate misleads you, sorry to point out to the fact.

You doubt the image is true. So do I. This image is just one from a huge set preapred by Reuters/AP photographers Abdaladze, Mdzinarishvili and Garanich.

What makes the difference, is that this image (as many others made by the named photographers) claims to show GEORGIAN casualties in the town of Gori after a supposed Russian bombardment, and is widely used in anti-Russian propaganda.

You have whipped yourself, Gina. This is Georgians that are faking media stories.

Many thanks for all the blood poured to the American puppet Saakashvili -- he spent all the money he got from the USA on building up NATO type army (which evidently cannot fight against Russia more than one day), talking constantly like a stupid parrot about how democratic Georgia became -- instead of bulding up industry and business.

Now he is a loser; but what is more important, he made his people to lose as well: do you know how much money the Georgians used to get from Russia where many of them have businesses or work as gastarbeiters? (They had to do it to support their families, because this was only army developing in "the most democratic ex-Soviet republic").

Now they have well deserved problems in Russia -- but deserved by the bloody stupid Saakashvili, not by the people of Georgia.

Wanna have hell in NATO? Caucasian vendettas that can outperform traditions of mafia? Wanna have one more sucker (literally -- who sucks money of Western tax-payers)? Wanna move NATO even closer to Russia? Enlist Saakashvili's Georgia, and enjoy.

Dear Vladimir,

Thank you for your comment. However, the post you are responding to was written by by my fellow blogger "Democracy Rules." Perhaps he will reply to your comment.

Gina Cobb

My sincere apologies -- looks like my missile hit a wrong target, but anyhow brought a clear message.

Surely, this is DemocracyRules who whipped himself -- herself -- or finally itself, my PC language is not perfect, sorry.
___________________________
[From DemocracyRules -- Dear Vladimir {may I call you Walter?}:

Thank you for taking time to write a comment. Many of your concerns are addressed in my last few days' postings on this war, but let me discuss a few of your points.

"Living in the world of democracy promoted worldwide both peacefully and with the bayonets of American GIs"...
I don't really believe that you oppose democracy. Almost all former Communist states declared themselves to be democratic.

RE: "the bayonets of American GI's."... I'm Canadian and we also use bayonets in warfare. The question is 'which bayonets, used where, and for what purpose?'

I do not HATE Russia. I grew up with Russians and other Slavs, and have had my share of potato wine. Americans don't generally hate Russia, they don't even think about Russia. They don't hate anyone for very long. They don't concentrate on such things.

Only 5% to 10% of Americans have passports, and they can't find Georgia on a map because they don't care about Georgia. And WHY should they have to care? Do you worry about Sulawesi, or the Okavango delta?

The US is HUGE, with vast resources, massive amounts of built structure, hospitals, clinics, colleges, universities, stadiums, airports, large houses, millions of cars, and freeways everywhere going everywhere. They are very comfortable in their home country.

I'm sorry if my comment, "building more weapons to defend ourselves against Russia" hurt your feelings, but geopolitical truths are more important than hurt feelings.

RE: "The Russain right to have zones of interst." Let me be straight about these zones. If a fair-minded family lives surrounded by similar people, what's wrong with that? They work together, they cooperate, they build a community. But what if a bunch of bikers moved into a residential area and bullied their neighbours into keeping quiet about the meth lab in the basement? And what if other bikers moved in nearby? Both of these are 'zones of interest', but clearly such zones can be good or bad.

In the case of Russia, I don't think Russia has any right whatever to "own" Georgia. The country is not bothering or threatening Russia. A country which forms it's own democracy is not threatening Russia.

RE: "You doubt the image is true. So do I. This image is just one from a huge set preapred by Reuters/AP photographers Abdaladze, Mdzinarishvili and Garanich." I pointed out in a recent post that both sides are faking photographs and videos and it's important to independently verify any image or claim being made.

For example, the media often claims that 2,000 have died, but there is no verifiyable body count or casualty count at this time. The Red Cross cannot even enter the area yet.

RE: "Many thanks for all the blood poured to the American puppet Saakashvili". I don't like that wording. It sounds very Communist to me.

The leader of a democratic country is not a puppet -- they respond to their electorate. If Germany is an 'American puppet', I would certainly like to inspect those strings! Similarly, in Venezuela, Hugo Chavez was democratically elected, and I don't see any strings attached to him!

Amazingly, in 2002 Chavez was overthrown in a coup, and the US intervened to restore him to power, because no matter what crazy fool he was, he was the people's choice for president.

Pro Patria -- DemocracyRules

Thank you for your response. I would add some more comments...

RE: "I don't really believe that you oppose democracy. Almost all former Communist states declared themselves to be democratic."
I do not oppose democracy. I even like it -- but consider it an ideal, that hardly achieved in the real world. 'Democracy' comes from 'demos' and 'cratos' -- 'power of people'. Do you rwally think, that the USA has REAL democracy? They have president elected in full conformity with local legislature, but is it truly democratic? I would dare to doubt... At least, people do not elect their president directly...

Democracy alone is not enough for well-being of people. They need peace, safety, security, they'd like to be sure in their tomorrow and tomorrow of their children. I am not sure the question of how their president is elected is somewhat important to them, if their state ensures good order within the country.

RE: "In the case of Russia, I don't think Russia has any right whatever to "own" Georgia. The country is not bothering or threatening Russia."

Georgia historically was a part of Russian Empire (as a great county or kingdom) and Soviet Union (as a republic, one of 15 or once 16) for centuries. Now Russia does not intend to own Georgia -- Russia wants Georgia that does not play dirty games in Caucasian region. Georgia is to set free Ossetians, and do it peacefully -- like the Serbs had to set free the Kosovars.

And yes, Georgia should not be a NATO member; its mebership does not meet Russian interests.

More points follow later, sorry -- I have sometimes to sleep ;-)

And, to make the last point: look at the democracy Georgia brought to the Ossetians. No wonder they fight for freedom of such kind of democracy.
Enjoy the deeds of Saakashvili you seem to be fond of. This is the real face of the American expansion and attempts to do everything to wipe Russia off the worlds map.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29507379@N06/

Looks like the democratic censorship is in action... In fact, I did post more than I can see here...

Vladimir,Vladimir, Vladimir

Putin is trying his best to destroy democracy in Russia. Why are we surprised when he tries to destroy it in another country? Once KGB, always KGB. I don't know how he spins it in Russia, but its not working over here.

Anyone that has followed the cold war sees the handwriting on the wall. The Russian people need to keep there government in check if they want to live in peace with the rest of the world. Although,I fear that Putin would use the same heavy handedness against the Russian people if they step out of line.

A dictator is a dictator if you call him a Communist or not.

Be weary of this man Russia, be weary.



RE: "Putin is trying his best to destroy democracy in Russia."

No, not at all; you are deeply misleaded by traditional anti-Russian propaganda (in fact, Westerb countries try to fool their people with such propaganda at least for three centuries - from the times they were far less democratic).

Instead -- or just the opposite, if I may, he is strengthening it as much as possible, trying at the same time to save Russia from being torn apart by some separatist trends that exist.

Eltsin's style democracy was more enjoyed by the Westerners, but just because politically his activity led to disintegration and weakening of Russia.

RE: "Why are we surprised when he tries to destroy it in another country?"

Total BS, sorry for that. Where in the world is he trying to destroy democracy? If you mean Georgia, he - well, our president is Mr. Medvedev, have you heard about that? - protects the Russian citizens.
Unfortunately, Saakashvili as a stupid dictator did not want to let them go their own way they chose long ago. Instead of democratical granting them independence, he decided to use military forces, and was adequately punished for his short-sighted decision.

RE: "Once KGB, always KGB. I don't know how he spins it in Russia, but its not working over here."

You'd be probably surprised, but there are governmental bodies and institutions that protect and defend the system of respective countries from internal and external threats in any, even the most democratic country. In some countries there are even some: for example, in the most dangerous democracy of the world there are the CIA, the FBI, the NSA/CSS...

The KGB (Committee for State Security), now FSB (the Federal Security Service) does the same job in Russia; Russia has same right to protect itself from all kinds of threats as any other country.

Russians are thankful to Putin for his activity. Do not take to close to your hearts words of a handful of 'dissidents' who histerically cry that Putin destroys Russian democracy; those people waste their lives trying to destroy their own homeland, whether it was the Russian Empire, Soviet Union or modern Russia. But they do not express opinion of majority.

I wonder, how come that there are so many experts that know what Russia should do, how Russia should develop, etc. Have you taken away all the beams from your own eyes, dear Western experts?

[From DR -- According several international observer groups, Russia lost its status as a democracy several years ago.

Here are some key elements of a democracy: (1) Political leaders are elected in free, fair and frequent elections. (2) The country has body of basic law, usually called a bill of rights and a constitution, and no other laws can conflict with this bill of rights and constitution. (3) Judges are selected or elected, but once they have the position, no elected official can fire them. (4) No one can be imprisoned unless it can be proved in court that they have broken a law. This decision will be made by a judge, not a politician. (5) Anyone can disagree with the government at any time for any reason without fear of reprisal.

Russia has violated all five of these elements. (1) In Russia many political leaders, including the governors are not elected. In many elections, the process is not free, fair, or frequent. (2) Russia has a constitution, but it has hundreds of thousand of laws which conflict with each other, or with the constitution. The bill of rights is not respected. Dissidents are harassed, imprisoned or killed. (3) Judges have limited capacity to enforce the constitution because there are so many conflicting laws. Furthermore judges can be politically influenced or bribed. (4) Dissidents can be imprisoned, habeas corpus is not respected, and prisons are dangerous hell-holes. (5) Many dissidents are imprisoned assaulted, threatened or killed. The news media is not free, and many news sources have been shut down by the governments.

In other words, Russia is not a democracy. If it were, Red Square would be full of protesters demanding an end to this war.]

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